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15 July 2017 @ 12:46 pm
INTJs and Florida Sinkholes  
I have been meaning to write about this for a while now. I remember reading an article a while back that INTJ's are the least likely to give to charity. I looked and looked but can not find that anywhere now. So I will talk about what I do remember and explain why I agree with it. The article said that the reason we do not give, it's not that we are giving, is that we are so driven by our motto "Bottom line, does it work." We are not swayed by emotions. We have very little empathy/sympathy. We are focused inwards on our own problems. I will explain all these points as well as add in my own views on our cold detached nature and interest in violent natural phenomenon.

1. Does it work? Most of these charity things you see are meant to pull at the heart strings of people and of all the types even the NT's INTJ's don't have them. So when they show you pot bellied picks of kids in Africa we probably don't think, "Poor things I want to help." A common reaction I get out of those photos is "Hum, that sucks. Glad it's not me." If we bother to look at what's involved in most of these "charities"/scams we are instantly turned off because these are not solutions to world hunger or saving whales or any other thing like that. They are temporary patches that do not solve the greater issue and we are not interested in something that really does not help and does not solve the big picture problem. I for some reason was getting a magazine about give a goat to a poor family. Just the fact they were begging from me in my own mail box has them already on the wrong foot. But I looked into it. Can I chose what kind of goat? Can I talk to the kids and families I give to? Can we write letters to each other? Can I be sent photos showing me how they have improved their lives? The answer to all this was No. CLICK. NEXT! I could go into a big rant about why this scam does not work but that is not the focus of this article. But it is our thought process as we are argumentative my mind made a check list of flaws this system and it made me proud that I saw through it when most people don't.

2. We are no driven by emotions or people oriented. This is where we differ from the NF's that fall for these things because they are so cause oriented and want so much to help. This includes the introverts. Cause and people oriented. Feeling types in general are people oriented even if they are introverts. Something else that is annoying to us. I have mistaken introverts for extroverts because of this puzzling trait. Anyway showing us photos of starving kids, hurt animals etc does not elicit an emotional response in us. Well at least not the desired one of "Poor thing how can help?" They are looking for. If INTJ's have one emotion it's Anger and its variants. Usually grumpiness. The emotional response will likely be anger for being bothered and disturbed and trying to force an emotion out of us. "Here's an emotion for you." Insert mental image of chasing hippies with a flame thrower. There is one other emotion that we might have but we keep it inside and you would never notice it. Excitement. INTJ's are drawn to power and if you're showing us disaster relief we are way more interested in the disaster and the science behind how it came about than the human side of the story. People crying is not interesting too us and this is something the media loves to show. These are strangers. We do not care so long as it's not someone we know. And we don't have a huge social circle so we're probably 95% safe it's no one that matters to us. "Yes yes enough with all the crying people. Explain how this tsunami started? What was the force? How many cities were destroyed? What moron forgot to sound the alarm? More more more?"

3. We are focused inward. I sort of touched on this already on point 2. Again so long as it's not someone we cared about or worse US then we really don't care. We've got more important things to think about like solving math problems, figuring out how to build our next invention and so on. We are very detached. This is a strength as we do not give in emotionally to crying during a crisis and instead focus on solving the problem or surviving. One thing that bothers me when there is a disaster is that you mostly only see aftermath. It's exciting at first but quickly gets old. We want to see destruction as it happens not the result of flattened cities and cars. We want to see cars flying through the air and people that know how to stand in a safe place and not flinch with their cameras. Lastly going back to the whole "Does it work." Scenario. So does that mean we never give and are stingy? Hell no. IF the project has value and merit to us and will be something that will be seen to completion then we will be happy to give what we can. Let's say that they figured out the cure for cancer but the thing holding it back was funding and they asked for donations. Yes that is something we would donate to happily even if we had only pennies to give. Plus we'd get pride from having contributed to a small part of it. INTJ's do have big egos after all. It's good to have healthy pride. On a personal level, we prefer to work on the smaller personal level than on the big crowd level, we INTJ's are very giving to the few individuals that matter to us. The rest of the world be damned. But to our small circle of friends we treat like royalty when we can. We give gifts happily to those closest to us as they probably occupy plenty of our head time. Just that the rest of the world never gets to see this side of us. And we do not care. The world be damned.

So that is why INTJ's of all the types are the least giving. Oh and there is one exception to this that I personally dealt with on my trip. I was gassing up my car on the way home. This kid comes up to me and begs me for money that his mom was over there in a truck and they'd run out of gas and he was collecting money. Scam. Almost every gas station has one of these types working it doing such a thing. But without saying a word I eyed him and the situation. Big kid, way bigger than me. A bit scary looking. He's interrupted my thought process of filling up my car while I'm in a strange town I don't know anything about. So I gave him two bucks just to make him go away. I really don't care about him or his mom or if he spends it on beer and pisses it away. To me it was worth $2 to be left alone at that point. Sure enough he went and gave the same story to the next person. That's not charity it's a job and by the end of the day he's probably going to have a good amount of money for whatever. Funny enough when I was in Canada the same thing happened with a woman that came up to me and asked me in French for money. I gave her the death stare and said sternly "No." in a Spanish accent as I think it's pronounced the same and she understood to leave me the Hell alone. So there you have it.

On that note I want to talk about natural disasters now. I am fascinated by them and love watching disaster footage. It's so hard to find good raw disaster footage and again not just aftermath. I found an article the other day that the Volcano in Guatemala was erupting. It's called Volcan De Fuego. Well there wasn't much out there . The footage of lava coming out was only at night. Pretty at first but then the novelty wore off on me quickly. I can't watch a volcano making lava for more than 3 minutes. It got boring. But then I found THIS amateur video. I prefer raw amateur footage like this than official news footage for being un cut and showing things from a personal level. The commentary made this video for me. She was talking about how she got up this morning and Volcan De Fuego was very grumpy and angry. Look how mad he is. The one next to him is nice. And the big one here on the left is very friendly and never does anything. I know she's being positive but to me this tickled my dark humor. Yes look how grumpy the volcano is today before is crushes our village with a pyroclastic flow. Haha. I loved her panning too. Despite the shakey camera this shows very well how typical it is in Central America to have villages like this completely surrounded by deadly volcanoes. I've been to El Salvador several times and I'm always amazed how the capital is at the foot of several volcanoes. Beautiful imposing view in all directions, but it's just a way of life for these people I guess like hurricanes are for us. We have hurricane parties. Makes me think of Independence day
Will Smith: Is that an earth quake?
Girlfriend: Not even a four pointer. Go back to sleep.

And yesterday we had our own disaster here in Florida. Funny I was just talking about this in a previous post. A large sinkhole opened up not far from where I live in Land O Lakes FL and ate two houses and the street. I spent hours on youtube searching for the best videos but got rather annoyed after a while because everyone was just uploading the same thing over and over again. I'm thinking, in this age of cell phones SOMEONE, some neighbors had to have filmed more than the 4-5 videos floating around. Perhaps they'll pop up later but at least this time they were interesting. So here are some videos. This first one I found because I watch this guy. He posts great videos from his quadcopter of the Tampa Bay Area.


This next one is the one everyone and their grandmother has reuploaded. Would love to find the original in good quality. I do like it a lot because of the amazing sound of a house breaking. Also it's crazy to see how the ground water comes up and there is a current. I will talk about FL geology after these posts.

I love this one because this is before the house in the other video collapsed. This is basically the start of the sinkhole. I would love to find more stuff like this as I know there are lots of people in this neighborhood that would have filmed each part of it.

Lastly the neighbor's house starting to go in. I'm amazed at the power of this thing destroying a concrete house like nothing. Interesting to see a bed floating in the quicksand.

Florida Geology 101 now. Florida is a fairly new piece of land having risen out of the ocean during the Cenozoic. We're only around 40 million years old and that's why we sadly have no dinosaur fossils. Only age of mammals. Not as interesting unfortunately. So from bottom to top Florida is mostly Limestone, Clay and Sand because of our marine origins. Limestone is porous and weak against acid. Rain is naturally acidic so over time the rain percolates into the ground and erodes away the limestone forming caverns.

Our "solid" limestone layer is more like a sponge made of a network of caves and tunnels that run through the whole state and contains our aquifer. The aquifer is a system of underground rivers that flow to the ocean. Sometimes they break the surface as springs and provide fresh drinking water. There are many springs all over the state. After a great period of time rains can erode the lime stone and form a huge cave under the land that is filled with water from the aquifer. But during times of drought the water level drops and then with only air filling the cave the roof can not support the weight above. If there are buildings and cars over this they will fall in when the roof of the cave breaks.

Now look at this fictional cross section of our aquifer.

Notice that some of our big cities are literally floating on water. The entire state is a big sinkhole threat zone and that is why home owners insurance does not cover sink holes. For that you have to buy separate sinkhole specific insurance because all parts of the state are under threat. It just depends how much of a threat you are in.

Now have a look at this image. What happens if there is a lake over an empty cavern? Well we have such a case. Lake Jackson is the "magic" disappearing lake that has the plug pulled on it every few decades just like a bath tub. It's in north Florida in Tallahasee. Every 20-30 years the plug opens up and fish and alligators get swallowed up by the earth. I wish I could find the original video that showed that but it seems to be gone from youtube. For now here is one that is kind of interesting. I like seeing the lily pads on dry land.

The old video mentioned the original Indian name for the lake meant something like "Land of disappearing lake" so this has been going on for centuries.

Sinkholes usually happen in the dry season when the water dries up in the caves. But what about the one that just happened. This is our wet season. Well, as you saw the opposite happened. The sinkhole filled with water in those videos. Looks like a new spring came up between those houses. Eventually most sink holes become lakes. The infamous Winter Park sinkhole of 1981 did this. Probably the largest we've had today is now the lovely Lake Rose where people can go and feed ducks. Many lakes are former sinkholes.

Lastly sinkholes can also be caused by human activity like drilling a well or putting in pipes that cause the ground above to collapse.

So yes it's always interesting living here in this state.
actipton80actipton80 on July 15th, 2017 06:28 pm (UTC)
For me it's the ASPCA commercials that make me upset more than the ones of starving kids in third world countries. We get those magazines where you can buy a goat for someone too. Mom and I thought about buying chickens for someone in my uncle's name as a practical joke on him. I tithe to my church, but I don't have enough money for any other charity. I do it out of gratitude to Jesus for what He did for me, and I would give more if I had the resources.
Desthagirion on July 15th, 2017 09:43 pm (UTC)
Oh no you too. Those magazines I do not trust. Ha that would be funny to buy them in his name. I give freely to my friends sometimes just because and that makes me happy.
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Des: Thanatos In his sightthagirion on July 15th, 2017 09:49 pm (UTC)
Yes it's pretty silly they send out these magazines. I don't know how they even found me as I have not done anything like that. I once gave a doncation to Save The Whales and will never do it again because they do nothing and are not a true science organization. From now on if I do some kind of environmental donation it will be to a real science facility like Scripts Institute, Woods Hole, Mote Marine or Monteray Bay Aquarium. Well now I can teas you that you have supplied war lords like Thanatos. He would thank you. Haha.

Here a common scam is someone walks up with a gas can asking for money because they ran out of gas and their car/truck is not far away. Then you see them same person doing it again the next day. So that's their "job" to scam bleeding hearts. I do not like being approached by strangers so I understand that feeling. See for me I do not have that need to help others so I put my efforts into other things.

I'm glad you liked the info on the sinkholes. It's been fascinating me lately. I enjoyed writing that part of this post more than the MBTI part actually. I happy to have known one of my geology professors was at the sink hole in 1981 and showed us some photos of the pool breaking no one else has. Yeah it's nice here but like all places it has its dangers. Hurricanes we can see coming for weeks ahead at least but these sinkholes you have no warning or idea.
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Des: Floridathagirion on July 15th, 2017 11:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah I don't trust them either. Definitely they can be dangerous and I'm just naturally suspicious of people anyway.

Yes they definitely do. Our local Mote Marine is very special for me for having known the founder. Sadly she passed a way a few years ago.

That's so true and something my mother didn't understand to the point that she turned me away from some things.

This is something I forgot to mention too. I watch disasters fascinated and also wonder if I could survive them unlike what people might do on the screen. Usually I think about what things would I grab first in a fire. Now I'm thinking about what to do if a sinkhole appeared. I think I have more time in the fire.
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Desthagirion on July 16th, 2017 11:33 am (UTC)
She was an AMAZING person. I had her as a professor and we were friends afterwards. Because of her I met so many amazing scientists and I considered her my mentor. Her death is one of the few times I cried because of sadness. Totally called for and she deserved tears. My oldest friend literally I think she was 92. I really looked up to her and try to be like her. Big shoes to fill.

Oh I hate that side effect. People think you don't care when you're doing it 100% right because emotions at those times are nothing but trouble. It's good you stay calm in emergencies. That's so important. It's ok to freak out or whatever once it's all over with and everything is safe.

Yes many do not realize that unwanted and unneeded help makes things worse. Tough love is very important and one has to know when to use it. I forgot to comment that I love the quote about the fish. It's true. Teach people to fish not give them fish.

Earthquakes are scary because like sink holes you don't get a warning. Well Italy has many volcanoes so it makes sense it's a seismic area. I have only experienced two tiny ones. More like tremors; both in El Salvador. I was playing SNES with some other kids on the second floor when I felt that jolting like when you're going up a rollercoaster and then it stopped. I just froze and in my mind wasn't sure what had happened then one of the kids yelled, "Did you feel the Earthquake?" And I was like, "That was an earthquake?" And I got all excited for my first one. The second time I didn't even notice. Was at a family member's house and the window shook. It felt like wind that hits our glass here in FL during storms so I didn't pay it any mind. My mother was like "That was an earthquake." I said No and didn't believe her. But then she showed me the lamp shade was swinging and no wind had gotten in. I just stared still unsure but now couldn't argue.

Yes the phrase is "My life flashed before my eyes." Good thing she escaped. As a kid I used to wonder what it would be like to be in an earthquake in a big field with nothing to fall on you. Might be fun to just be bouncing around. So long as no holes open.
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Des: Floridathagirion on July 15th, 2017 11:39 pm (UTC)
That's a good way to put it. Yes throwing money at the problem in these cases does not solve it and I'm annoyed to be tried to be roped into things and coerced into caring when I do not. Ha, not many games do this but I love it. I had thought about some kind of money projectile in Triangulum Resistance with the millet where it all things currency, health/food item and ammo. So it's an expensive gun to shoot.

Oh yes they do that all the time in the streets but also in advertisement it's a psychological thing and most of our type doesn't fall for it. I mentioned to Rahula what organization I would donate to when I am able to as they actually do something with the money.

We are definitely dependent on our aquifer too. I think all our drinking water is ground water. But because of that it does cause problems and explains why we have so many lakes. I'm glad you looked up the geology in your area too. I have considered that the state could just fall back into the ocean at some point. Our tallest "mountain" is only around 400 feet and it's basically in Alabama.
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Desthagirion on July 16th, 2017 12:54 pm (UTC)
It's rather funny and once you leave the section of the galaxy that is for birds then it is worthless as money so may as well use it as ammo.

Yes agree. That is why I am happy to help the institutions I have named or private projects that I think are worth while.

I now wonder where the next one will open up?
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on July 16th, 2017 12:22 pm (UTC)
So many charities are frauds these days one has to be careful.

I had no idea that people beg at your service stations. Something I have not experienced. I actually did not give to a musician the other day because he said he was down because he couldn't indulge in his usual non-essentials such as smoke and drink. No, I will not donate to that.

We actually heard of your sinkhole over here! Very interesting geology. I knew most of it except for the flowing bit. That's good if the water is pure enough to actually drink from...or, almost.

Desthagirion on July 16th, 2017 12:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah I have noticed. Good you didn't give him any money. That's not a good thing to spend it on.

Oh wow it made world news. I did not know that. It was only like 30 minutes from where I live. It seems to have finally stopped growing.
kabuldurkabuldur on July 17th, 2017 10:56 am (UTC)
Yeah, I did question myself on whether I was imposing my morals on him, but decided that if I did, I would only be harming his health. he's on the same income as O am. He'll just have to adjust!

Yeah, we're very Amerocentric over here :P
Samantha Falcosamanthafalco on July 17th, 2017 03:42 pm (UTC)
My reaction is "Oh, that sucks" to those photos of starving African children, too. I'm into dark humor and I believe it was George Carlin who made this joke about African people and how if they're so starving they should get the f*ck out of the desert. Although, there's also the issue with corrupt African leaders who steal from charities that are trying to help the hungry. I saw actipton80's comment about those ASPCA commercials. I love animals, but I'm desensitized to those commercials now and they don't make me sad like they did when I was 5. One of those "buy an animal for hungry people" charities came to our school and a few of the people came into my English class to speak. They handed us those magazines and you could buy animals from chickens to llamas for starving people, though I think the sheep and llamas were more for wool.

I've never even given money to "homeless people" that cross my path. When we were stranded on I-95 coming home from Florida the first time, we ran out of gas due to my brother-in-law's poor judgement and were stranded there for two hours until the police came and gave us enough gas to get to the next gas station. At said gas station, these two creepy, lanky women approached my brother-in-law asking for gas money because they were out of gas. He said no and they went to other people who also denied them. Then they drove off even though they said they were completely out of gas. Definitely druggies looking for drug money. I feel like most homeless people in the city aren't actually homeless, and I'm certainly not swayed by the "Money for a homeless veteran?" signs they hold up as much as I respect those who serve. Anyone can pretend they served and are now homeless and fool people on the street.

Come to think of it, the only thing I ever donated my money to was the Trump campaign. It was only $10 but I got a free Trump-Pence t-shirt.

There's an issue with sinkholes somewhere in upstate New York. I saw it on the news a few days ago and basically this entire street is going under. I wouldn't want to be in the same situation as those homeowners, but sinkholes are fascinating.
Desthagirion on July 18th, 2017 01:20 am (UTC)
Ha I can relate to your reaction. I have always wondered why these people don't just go somewhere else. Yeah I don't trust the whole buy an animal thing at all.

I loved it in the Godfather game if you shot the bum on this one particular street he had more money than any other citizen you could mug. He would drop like 2000 bucks and I had a feeling he had a lot from begging. It's a job. I just didn't know he'd have that much. So I would wait for him to respawn and keep farming him.

Ha that's great. I know my mother donated to him before she passed away so I was glad about that. I saw his letters in the mail and I just laughed though. He doesn't need my money to win. I think he had it covered. My vote he gets, my money no. But buying a shirt is cool.

Yeah I have heard about sinkholes in other states too. They are interesting how they work. I'm fascinated by the geology of it.