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07 September 2012 @ 12:09 pm
Thoughts  
Well I have had more time to think than usual. I'm rather groggy today but at least I'm up and about once in a while. I filmed this week's pumpkin update and am rendering it now. I will post it to YT later today. I think I still have the meds in my system because I'm still very weak and need to lie down once in a while. I'd love to take the advantage to work on photoshop since my hands are good but I'm too tired. Yesterday I was thrilled when I hooked up my laptop to the TV and got to see my journal on a huge monitor. That was very cool. I wish I had a longer HDMI cable because I wonder if I can color in photoshop in bed that way? I slept very well last night though. I even had a dream I was back in highshool and three bullies cornered me and wanted to steal my books. I pull a staff out of my locker and kick their butts using karate. One in particular I nailed good with the pointed end of the staff in the stomach. That had to hurt. So it was nice to have a normal dream again.

I read an awesome research article on BBC science news. I like BBC science because it has less BS than the other science news pages I read. It's about Stereotypes and how they evolve over time like language. I find it funny how many people don't like stereotypes and get so easily offended over them. I never have and never do because first they are funny and second I never include myself in that group even if I'm part of it. Like girl stereotypes or nerd stereotypes. Chris and I have always said that the reason people don't like stereotypes is because they have a hint of truth to them. Well this paper confirms what we already knew. Here is the article. Basically it boils down that stereotypes start as a list of complex information about a group of individuals. As this information is passed on through society it is condensed to only a few points like the example they gave that salesmen are "confident, pushy and talkative". That's mostly true and to be a successful salesman you have to be that way. You have to sell the product. Stereotypes are a fast way of conveying information about other groups and all cultures have them and they are necessary. I love the way the article ends.
"People who want to eliminate stereotypes are missing the point."
All human beings categorize whether they know it or not. It is our nature and it is a way to bring structure to systems.
Posting the article's text in case it ever goes down.


Stereotypes evolve in a similar way to language, according to research presented at the British Science Festival in Aberdeen.

These generalised perceptions of groups of individuals are an unintentional consequence of information sharing, the scientists claim.

And far from being fixed, they evolve and strengthen as they pass from person to person.

The work was carried out by a team at the University of Aberdeen.

Stereotyping represents a view of other people based on perceptions of a social group and the shared attributes that people within that group are considered to possess.

For example, a typical stereotypical view of salesmen is that they are "confident, talkative and pushy".

To address the genesis of such stereotypes, Dr Doug Martin and colleagues from the University of Aberdeen's Person Perception Lab designed an experiment using aliens - an approach previously used to study the origins and evolution of language.

The aliens they invented each had a different colour, shape and set of personality traits; such as arrogance, pushiness or selfishness.

The team then asked a volunteer to learn the characteristics assigned to each one. The information retained by the volunteer was then fed down a communication chain.

What started out as jumbled and complex individual characteristics and traits ended up encompassed in sets of stereotypes.

Character traits became inextricably linked with form and colour - for example, blue aliens might be perceived as arrogant, pushy and untrusting.
Pink rugby kit Pink has not always been the colour associated with boys

As Dr Martin explained: "Information becomes simpler, more structured and more learnable over time" - so much so that the people at the end of the chain were far more knowledgeable than those at the start.

"It's essentially what stereotypes are - massively over-simplified but easily learnable associations between social groups and bits of information," Dr Martin told BBC News.

As the stereotypes evolved, the attributes associated with each group became increasingly polarised.

"It's almost as if at the end of a chain you have the good guys and you have the bad guys", he said.

But are stereotypes fixed? Dr Martin doesn't think so.

"To consider them fixed certainly doesn't represent them fully because stereotypes clearly have changed over time," he said.

According to Dr Martin, the June 1918 edition of Ladies' Home Journal points out "The generally accepted rule is pink for boys and blue for girls…" If true, this is one stereotype that hasn't stood the test of time.

So what will Dr Martin and his team of volunteers - both human and alien - be doing in the future?

"Now we've established that stereotypes can form and change over time via social transmission we now want to see if we can manipulate these," he said.

When asked if stereotypes were an inevitable consequence of society and communication, Dr Martin opined: "We structure the world in a categorical way - it seems our brains are set up to do that.

"People who want to eliminate stereotypes are missing the point."

After having a nice conversation with actipton80 about Owen, she really got me thinking. Owen is good at many things and both he and I tout those abilities. He won't let you forget it. But like all people he's not good at everything and he does suck at somethings. For one he's a lousy athlete. If it has to do with a ball he hates it. He can't catch, he can't throw, he has lousy aim, he tires easily and he's not very strong. In a fight one good punch can sink him. He can dish it but he can't physically take it. He's a pretty good runner though. He's had to become one because he has to escape Thagirion's attacks. I've been trying to think what else he's not good at. He probably can't draw. I know he can't paint. I'll have to think of other stuff. But the thing about Owen is you wouldn't know what he sucks at because he's not stupid enough to brag about what he can't do. I won't say he can do something that he can't. He's not full of BS and he knows his limits. This makes him very powerful and formidable. He only brags about what he can do and what he can do he's extremely good at. He doesn't put himself in situations where he's at a disadvantage. And if some other guy challenged him to say a game of darts he'd probably just insult him and walk away. If he's called a chicken, it doesn't phase him. He's so quick witted he'd probably come up with a good come back to that that currently I'm not seeing and still not take the challenge. Loosing is not an option and he only plays when he knows he can win. In the game Dragon's Dogma Owen has a phrase, "There's no way we could have lost to that." Change We to I and that's one of his outlooks on life.

Yarg, I'm starting to feel very lucid and awake now. Energy's returning. Very clear thoughts but stuff's also starting to hurt. I think the pills are wearing off. Better stop typing. Darn.
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Current Mood: tiredtired
Current Music: Amon Amarth - The Hero
 
 
 
The Silver Wolf of Darkness: Cool Zoraksilvolf on September 7th, 2012 04:29 pm (UTC)
I had to get a really long HDMI cable to reach from my computer to my TV lol! I'm not even using all of it. I think it's 15 feet or something.
That's interesting about stereotypes. I think that while they have their uses and help people, often people think ALL points brought up in a stereotype are definately descriptions of whatever it is. For example my South African friend is angry about stereotypes for South African people. People she meets on the internet think she is black and lives in a mud hut on the Savannah. Now, that could just be because people don't do their research and realise that South Africans are like the vast majority of the rest of us and aren't all black and live in towns and cities and also because much of the TV and media only focus on the poorer parts of Africa. So people misuse stereotypes? I think that's why people have problems with them.
Des: Pirate Parrotthagirion on September 7th, 2012 04:40 pm (UTC)
That's cool. I want a long cable like that now. It's too bad they are kind of expensive.
But that's what people need to remember. That these are generlized points and not true of everyone and if it's not true of them they should not get offended because they aren't in that group. They're in a subgroup. See as I read your sentence when I saw "South Africa" I instantly though "black girl" until you said otherwise. But I also know that South Africa was a former British colony and mostly whites live there and is one of the most developed parts of Africa so that's not too surprising. The huts part didn't occur to me but when I think of Africa over all that is something that comes to mind. Yes the media does perpetuate it and people need to realize what's meant to be a joke like in cartoons when you see Mexicans or any other nation. Then of course you're right. There are stupid people too that refuse to see that there are exceptions. Now that's just plain wrong and not the fault of the stereotype but of the individual. Because all parrots are pirates right? Hehe.
The Silver Wolf of Darkness: Macawsilvolf on September 7th, 2012 04:47 pm (UTC)
Haha yes exactly!
"Pieces of eight!"
Des: Pirate Parrotthagirion on September 7th, 2012 05:50 pm (UTC)
Hehe, arrr, dabloons!

Haha, we're early for speak like a pirate day matey! We must remember the 19th.
The Silver Wolf of Darkness: Riktushibasilvolf on September 7th, 2012 06:12 pm (UTC)
Yarrr! That be true!
actipton80actipton80 on September 7th, 2012 08:10 pm (UTC)
The thing that I don't like about stereotypes are the ones who think you aren't X because you don't do something that X'es supposedly do or you do something that X'es aren't supposed to do.

Even with that description, Owen still seems like a Marty Stu to me. No realistic person can stay away from all situations where they are at a disadvantage. He seems like that super smart person who would get hired and be awesome, but get fired three days later because little unconscious things he did clued his boss in on how abrasive he really is.
Des: Fungus Yes I AM the Best!thagirion on September 7th, 2012 08:36 pm (UTC)
I see why you would think that because I have only shown that part of him as I said already. You haven't seen my main story which I haven't shown anyone yet. Trust me he doesn't succeed at everything he's tried....actually you said you read the lost memory story. If you read both endings you'll see how he failed against Thagirion and against Cope. No, he's not Stu. I should know. He's my best developed and most realistic character.
Also it's interesting you would mention the getting hired thing. Many of the traits that are desirable in big business are the abrasive aggressive trait Owen has. These are the people that make it in the business world. They are also traits shared by psychopaths. If you ever get a chance read Snakes in Suits. It's a fascinating study. Yes there are people like Owen out in the real world.

Edited at 2012-09-07 08:41 pm (UTC)
actipton80actipton80 on September 7th, 2012 11:41 pm (UTC)
It's been a while since I've read it, and I don't think I read all of it. I don't remember stuff I read a lot of the time. The abrasive ones I was thinking of are the ones who annoy their boss and coworkers with their "I'm awesome and don't you forget it" vibe. That isn't the same as aggressive, because you can be aggressive and not a jerk. Abrasive = jerk. I knew one of those, and Owen in the lost memory story actually reminded me of him.
Des: Ego Tripthagirion on September 8th, 2012 12:11 am (UTC)
Oh, I'd LOVE for you to read it all and the alternate story. There are two kinds of cocky guys. Those that like to brag about themselves but don't hurt anyone else and those that brag AND put others down. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference but someone that brags, can back it up and doesn't put you down at the same time (he's great just because he is, love me for it) is someone good to have as an ally. Those that put others down aren't necessarily doing it to bring themselves up either. If there's only one other guy in the room they become the point of comparison and in his eyes they don't compare so the berating begins. It's an inate competitiveness and this is what Owen is like. He doesn't need to put someone down to feel good about himself. He always feels good about himself (except when it comes to his fire) but it's even more fun when someone's around.

During the Lost Memory story when he was good he was the other type of jerk. He still bragged and let the world know he was great but not at the expense of others. Personally I like this kind of person. I guess I'm used to it from cocky latin males I grew up with it. Our race is full of cocky SOB's.

Thanatos is someone that can bring Owen down a peg or two. He hired him because he liked that aggressive personality and knew Owen could get the job done, but when Owen messes up he gets chewed up which happens in this story too. Thanatos isn't as smart as Owen but he's got the business smarts and knows how to keep him in line.

As for real life examples of people like this there's Donald Trump and Vince McMan (sp?) the owner of the wrestling federation. Both have made their way to the top by being aggressive and I have no doubt by stepping on others and putting them down too. Two major success stories. There's also the historical J.P. Morgan who gave President Roosevelt a run for his money. I admire both of them. And then there's Owen's name sake, the paleontologist O.C. Marsh who was also a successful business man that loved the social life.

These larger than life personalities are definitely not for everyone. Stay out of their way if you hate ENTJ's. I can totally understand why people hate them. But I think credit must be given where credit is due too. Love him or hate him Owen is a magnificent bastard. He does fail though as you will see in my next post.

Luckily for everyone they are also a very rare type. That makes sense since there aren't to many that can be Alpha leaders. One reason I created Owen is because since I was a child I always knew these types existed somewhere. I always hated cartoons that showed the cocky jerk failing. I always thought, "There has to be a cocky jerk that succeeds". This notion and this reality scares a lot of people. Like the notion that bad guys aren't supposed to win. But that's what I wanted to show and fill in that missing gap of the asshole that does make it flaws and all. I was happy when I found out they do exist and I was right. So part of the reason for my story is to turn this around. My story is also not a "feel good" story. Quite the opposite. It's a slap in the face nearly all the lead characters are villains vying for the top. Lots of tragedy and one of my goals is to make grown men cry.

Darn there was one last point I wanted to make and I forgot it.

EDIT: OH I remember. The point was that you know that the more I love a character the more they suffer too. Owen's one of my most oppressed characters. I love to torture him. It's fun. He sufferes a lot but despite everything I throw at him he doesn't let life get him down. He keeps fighting and I like that. So no things aren't perfect for him nor does he always win, but he won't tell you about that.

Edited at 2012-09-08 12:50 am (UTC)
actipton80actipton80 on September 8th, 2012 01:28 am (UTC)
The cocky jerk I was referring to in my last post is my youngest brother before he grew out of it. He sometimes bragged at other people's expense and sometimes he just bragged. I just got tired of hearing it either way, and find braggarts tiresome no matter what, especially needy attention whores extroverts. Shut up and let your talents speak for themselves.
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on September 8th, 2012 09:46 am (UTC)
That's a horrible choice - groggy or pain. I hope the adjusted meds work.

I must say, I hate stereotypes, too. I think we are all individuals. No-one actually fits a stereotype perfectly. I find stereotypes a hinderance to getting to know someone properly.

As to people who are braggarts and pushy, I really don't like them. I have an ex who was pushy and he might have had some success sometimes, but he put people off most of the time.
Des: Owen in Slytherinthagirion on September 8th, 2012 12:29 pm (UTC)
I'll find out tomorrow. I think I'd rather have tolerabe pain so long as I can still do stuff. No pain for a while was nice but I was incapacitated which didn't help either.

I love the stereotype others have of Americans a gum chewing cowboys. I think it's great. You can't let them get to you. They are a way to convey information quickly and something you just have to accept about society.

Our conversation on that kind of got off topic. Putting people off is actually a trait a lot of ENTJ's have. They want to have lots of friends but act like jerks and then alienate everyone and they don't get why that happens. That's got to suck for an extrovert.
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on September 9th, 2012 11:13 am (UTC)
Yeah, I know it's a bit off-topic. Of course, you might want people to hate some of your characters!

I can't imagine gum-chewing cowboys. My image of cowboys is back in the 1800s when there wouldn't have bene chewing gum for miles - that's if it was even invented yet!

Yeah, lots of extroverts would have that problem - me included. And it does suck. My ex was/is an extrovert. He lives alone, but he is tough and I don't think it bothers him much. He is still extroverted when he visits people - like a happy tail-wagging puppy. He is tolerable in small doses, hehe :) Funnily enough it's the introverts that people like the most.
Desthagirion on September 9th, 2012 12:02 pm (UTC)
That's true. I do want people to hate Owen because of all my baddies he's vile. The way I wrote him in my main story that was what I was going for. So I was still surprised that so many people liked him. I like him of course just because I'm his creator.

There was probably chewing tobaco back then and people might not have known the difference.

I can't imagine you putting people off and I don't think you because you're too nice and nothing like an ENTJ. They are one of the worst when it comes to that. There are jerk introverts too.
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on September 10th, 2012 10:30 am (UTC)
Yes, there are jerk introverts as well.

Sometimes I put people off by being too truthful ie blunt :P)