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18 October 2013 @ 12:18 pm
Trying to get into that ISFJ mentality  
Ok, I have been meaning to post about this for a few days now. I have several questions that I don't even know how to word or what I'm feeling. I'm riding on intuition only but my Te wants confirmation that I am right...or wrong and more evidence. Anyway, George is a difficult character for me to understand and sometimes write. He's ISFJ. That's very different from my type INTJ and the other NT's which I can easily get into all their heads and for that matter just thinking types in general. I think it's the feeling side I'm just not getting or having a hard time. George is also extroverted feeling Fe while I am introverted Feeling Fi which leads to even less understanding of him. Actually I think this is where the big problem lies for me. I don't have a hard time understanding his SJ nature: traditionalist, duty minded, loyal, detail oriented. That mind set is fairly easy for me. It's his feeling side I need help with. Fe's are more expressive. They have more animated faces than Fi. Fi has strong feelings too but they keep them inside and are better masters of the stone face. I draw George this way and portray him like this because he's a tough evil cowboy. But now I wonder if this is incorrect? I'm struggling with it because if it is and he's expressive my mind sees that as a weakness and not what I want for his character. I have grown to dislike the drawing I made of him with the dead pigeon because of that. His face is very expressive in that. BUT, that's Fe. It's probably right for his type. The thought of him bawling and sobbing sickens me. It does not appeal to me at all. I can't imagine him doing that. And if he did it would have to be something extremely hurtful to him. (But you know I will do that to him so it's coming I'm sure. I don't just deal out physical pain but also emotional pain.) But is that just my Fi wanting to keep it inside? Would that make him weaker? My mind says yes. If he's standing around crying he's not paying attention to his environment and watching out for enemies. He's not being efficient and getting things done. He's wasting time. I can't help but see it only as a weakness. May-be he'd have a break down only when he's alone like Owen sometimes does. But Owen is also Fi and I totally understand his character. We have all the same functions in nearly the same order and our big letters are only one letter difference. Basically we're about the same type.

When I think of expressive types Spongebob comes to mind. Not just for crying and sad things but everything is over emotional and expressive. Dancing, extreme happiness, huge smiles, wide eyes. SpongeBob is ESFJ. Again almost the same as ISFJ. All the same functions in very similar order. Now I'm quite convinced that everyone has a default emotion. Even the thinking types. For George it's grumpiness. This I think lends to his almost always "stone face". Even if he got his wish to go home he'd still be a grumpy guy though he would be "happier" and satisfied. So most of the time he's grumpy and bitter. May-be this is what gives him that tough cowboy look? I'm not sure how he'd react in certain situations. Sometimes I may have had him act wrong because I gave that Fi response. From my chart I posted a while ago here is what Fe is

Expressive, sensitive to criticism, values harmony, lives according to norms, facial expression, more expressive clothes, performs feelings based on social roles

He's definitely sensitive to criticism. He hates being called an insect. He's very defensive. The thought of it potentially happening stresses him and makes him mad. This type of thing might cause him to try and avoid certain situations or interactions so what he fears won't have a chance to happen. I think the SFJ's have a huge conflict with the whole "values harmony" thing. It's in conflict with Si both in the lead and it's ironic that many ISFJ's take the job of police officer. The avoidance of criticism and potential conflict leads to the nasty feedback loop of being lonely but self imposed from fear.

Definition of Fi:

Emotions processed internally, empathy for others emotions, inner flame/guiding value, does what's right despite persecution

Fi is confrontational. For me that coupled with Te which is very confrontational leads to the whole not caring about persecutions and only doing what's right.

I pride myself on being good at getting into my character's heads and portraying them right. But George is a bit tricky. Though not as frustrating as Thanatos or Destina. Still eh, feelings are hard for this thinking type. So yeah if anyone has an tips or advice I'm open to it.
Oh one more thing. Gender makes a difference too. I only have met female ISFJ's online and in real life. Males might be different.

Current Mood: Confused
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actipton80actipton80 on October 18th, 2013 06:11 pm (UTC)
I lurk on Personality Cafe, and there is one male ISFJ on there I know of, and he's way more level headed than most of the people on there including a lot of the NT's. He posted once that the Fe comes out in private. As for George, when he closed his eyes in the animation, I expected a tear to come out, and it didn't. I wouldn't expect him to bawl because he's a man. They are expected to cover it up, and since he's Fe he would. I think a common cover up is getting mad, which from what you said about him, I think he would do that, bad coping mechanism though it may be. If enough crap happens to him, the emotional meltdown will too. I think temper and breaking point both have nothing to do with your cognitive functions or your Myers-Briggs.
Des: Hummmthagirion on October 18th, 2013 06:40 pm (UTC)
Thanks for all that input. I have heard of some ISFJ's that keep it inside despite the Fe. Especially in a job like being a Cop because Si is on all the time and you do what's expected by society. Getting home after a hard day is when you're allowed to let loose with Fe. Some have told me about crying in private. But I have had some cry around me in real life out of something I didn't even expect a trigger and totally shock me. But that may also have been they were comfortable to cry around me. I don't know. I just don't get that really. I get mad at myself if I start crying which I do because I cry at inappropriate moments and have never been able to control it. But that's a physical response not an emotional one. I think my tear ducts get pushed when I laugh too much, smile or strain. The idea of him crying in private seems more logical to me.

Yeah, I think a tear in that video would have been too much. I like that he just closed his eyes and you could see the pain. Love it, but that's a good example too of "Did I portray him there as Fi?" I'm trying to think which types bawl in public. Even men. I have found ENFP's to be very emotional and guy cry. But ENFP is Fi. So gah, I'm very confused but then I guess feelings don't make sense anyway. You'd think that Fe would cry and not care in public because they are extroverts and Fi would not cry in public only in private.

Anger if controled is a great coping mechanism and I respect anger more than sorrow. George is explosive and angry. I'd rather him be this way than a depressive character because then he'd never get up and defend himself. I think some types cope with stress better than others so personality does play into breaking point to a degree.

Oh and as far as level headed feeling types go, I have been very impressed with INFJ's. Sometimes it's hard to tell if they aren't INTJ. Used to have a friend here on LJ that I asked her to check her T vs F but she was an INFJ for sure.

Edited at 2013-10-18 06:43 pm (UTC)
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on October 19th, 2013 09:29 am (UTC)
That's funny. I didn't see George as the showing feelings type. yes, he has feeling, but he would keep them inside. I can't imagine him crying even by himself. But I an see him looking stone faced, yet a bit sad in his face and stance. I could quite imagine George as being one of those surly types at times, too. Fuming inside but stony faced on the outside. The Fe could make him more vulnerable, because he could be distracted by an emotion (which he would feel inside, but not show). I could also see him attacking someone because he was angry. Probably at night and probably in his Gallemotch form. And later, not when the person actually made him angry. I hope I'm getting George right!
Des: George Smiththagirion on October 19th, 2013 01:47 pm (UTC)
It's possible. Hehe, thanks for the input. I'm still getting to know him so this could be right. Though as a J type that takes quick action if some made him mad he'd probably punch them right there and then, or shoot them. Yeah that inner fuming is how I'd rather see him too. Though I love this pic of him in the game.

Open the door dang it

What happened was that the door was locked so he grabbed the look and shook it harder and harder each time. Then when it still didn't open he started banging on the door with his fits and scraming more and more. Then he gave up an left. Haha, what a feeling response that was and it made me wonder if he'd really do stuff like this in my story. It's more of a Homer Simpson reaction though.

EDIT: BTW what you mention about him quietly going away then later, like days later taking out the person that angered him as Gallemotch happens in the story.

Edited at 2013-10-19 04:01 pm (UTC)
kabuldur: Asterkabuldur on October 20th, 2013 11:16 am (UTC)
I do think George could act quickly where he needed to if someone got him angry and it called for a response. I think George could take care of himself very well indeed. But, yeah when appropriate, I can see him nursing his anger and coming back in Gallemotch form and getting his revenge.

I do not see George as the type to do what he did in the game as you described. Nah, that's not George.

Edited at 2013-10-20 11:17 am (UTC)
Des: George Smiththagirion on October 20th, 2013 12:44 pm (UTC)
Yes this seems right to me. The thing with the door is funny though but yes probably out of character as it seems the actions of someone less intelligent. Not that George is a genius. He's not on the level as Cope and Owen and Solan as smarter than him too.
Cheezey: BooBoo Munchcheezey on October 19th, 2013 03:35 pm (UTC)
I agree with what others said, in that he probably just lets whatever he's expressing out more privately, or channels it into another emotion like anger.
Des: Hummmthagirion on October 19th, 2013 04:04 pm (UTC)
Yeah I've re-read the comments and I think so too. Anger seems to suit him well and it's very different from Owen. I love to show Owen angry but he's actually very cold though he gets annoyed. Owen only rages around Cope. George on the other hand has a very short fuse. He'd probably would channel his other feelings he can't control through anger.
gamma_wingsgamma_wings on August 19th, 2014 01:17 am (UTC)
Although I do have Fe, it's still my last function and even I don't understand it terribly well. xD But yea, it's more expressive and stuff than Fi. But as it's my last function is rarely shows, really. Unless I'm pretending to be all crazy and such, haha. xD Well and I laugh often. Yep making me burst out laughing is such an easy feat. xD

And gosh, Spongebob. xD He was always so emotional and stuff. o.o

Edited at 2014-08-19 01:19 am (UTC)
Des: George Grinsthagirion on August 19th, 2014 01:03 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you read this. George is a bit of an enigma to me and you see this is an old post. I'm still struggling with this. I think I hold him back sometimes because I resist in what I consider to be weakness and he would not. And yes my friends that have Fe are INTP's with it last so that doesn't help. It's ok. I'm glad it's last. None of my ISFJ friends commented on this. Sigh. I guess it's not something to ask, "What's it like to be so screwed up all the time. Can you explain that to me so I can write a better book. " XD I don't think that would go over well.

Yes he's fun to watch.
gamma_wingsgamma_wings on August 19th, 2014 04:56 pm (UTC)
Yea, I can imagine that it can be a bit hard to get into his mentality. xD Even I cannot fully do it. o.o And ah, I can understand that. Personally even I would have a hard time imagining such a tough guy like George crying. :/ Haha yep, us INTP's are of no help when it comes to this. xD Lol, yea I'm guessing that your ISFJ friends didn't want to explain to you this whole Fe mentality they have, haha. xD

Yes he is. :D